Archibald Brothers Part 4

UNFORTUNATE EVENTS

Archibald Episode

From Margo to Avery to Buckner

KELLY

In the early 2000s, author Lemony Snicket wrote thirteen books titled “A Series of Unfortunate Events.” This series followed three orphans who just couldn’t seem to find any luck in life. Though they were always on their best behavior, their guardians inflicted all kinds of strange punishments upon them, such as scrubbing the floor with toothbrushes and running laps from sunset to sunrise. 

In each of the thirteen novels, the orphans hope for a new and better situation, but their story just seems to get worse. The fictional series is the opposite of what we would expect from a story about three sweet children.

In many ways, the three Archibald boys also lived through a series of unfortunate events. The only difference in their story is that it is, somehow, not fiction. And these boys had parents. Or at least, sort of.

MA I don’t I don’t know I don’t know I do know when dad would get home Remember we make the ice cream out there we’d have that homemade ice cream and it was like we were all singing Kumbaya and the whole time I’m like if dad only knew

KELLY

In this episode of Qavah, the boys’ stepmother, Helen, continues experimenting with her newfound power over the Archibald children.

MA. We really didn’t know what we were honest to God we did not know what after it started and see these types of variations whether it was clipping whether it was raking whether it was picking at rocks vacuuming cleaning setting the table doing it it just became what’s coming next with a variety of things that we would be prompted to do

DESPERATE TO ESCAPE

KELLY

As their situation gets stranger, the boys get more desperate for some kind of escape.

RA I those moments I can remember some of those moments and I just remember observing you know just trying to be kind of invisible and just I did not want any attention on me because it was I don’t know when it was that the boogers started

MA It wasn’t it was about the same time

RA ok

MA. I mean it would’ve been we had not been there very long maybe four or five months we had cleared and now had gotten into winter that the fall of what 1972,3 that the physical abuse 

RA yeah but the you know there’s a little physical abuse from Richard and Larry and that kind of got worse as it went at some point it got where they had these little less like policeman handcuffs you know they were toys but they worked they probably don’t have these days but they would do that and then push me down the stairs and it was in a huge stairwell 

KA It’s dangerous

RA so you know I was going to be fine but

MA Those stairs were ginormous

RA But I almost remember like

MA The only saving grace Richard was that it had a curve to it

RA Yeah the landing stopped

The landing stop and you

MA It had a it had a one flight they would come to a landing spot and then made a little corner and it came the rest of the way

RA And that was an a daily thing but it obviously sticks out in my mind because it was a scary thing

KA And she’s all good with this

RA Oh yeah now now do I know for a fact that she was sitting there watching and she knew what was happening no but did I think that if she did anything with change now so there was that but then and this was the first time he was boogers under the couch right and it was

MA. I don’t even know how you identify the substances being

RA. What look like I mean yeah we had a perfectly made were sitting somewhere you might go hey that looks like booger but out of the blue I don’t I remember being up I guess in the big room and hearing commotion going on not knowing what it was and hearing dick involved you know I’m like OK and then I guess dad called me down I don’t know but I just remember them saying that I had put a whole bunch of boogers like under the couch 

KA. You’re shocked you have no idea what they’re talking about

RA They’re asking me about this and I’m like you know I probably knew what a booger was maybe I don’t even know I was like what are you talking about I didn’t say that but I did not have a clue what was going on other than I knew I was being accused of blame for something that didn’t even make any sense to me it still doesn’t make sense to me as a grown-up in fact it makes less sense to me now

KA So it’s almost like they’re scheming as a family to get you in trouble

RA That is exactly what it seem like and what I think it was and man I remember dad just I don’t know how huge spanking but it was a whole lot worse than just a spanking but it was belt pants down 

KELLY

Helen had introduced a new level of abuse: Physical abuse. What’s worse is that it came through their father, who had been their last chance at protection. 

And it wasn’t one or two it just kept going and then you know it ended than him holding me and that was probably the closest I ever felt to him which is the weirdest thing in the world but it’s true because he held me while I cried but then it was OK go to bed

CONFUSING PUNISHMENTS

KELLY

The torment wouldn’t stop with these mindless chores and confusing punishments. Their home became a place of constant paranoia as Helen’s power grew.

MA If that it only been the end of it

RA Right but that that became a thing

MA I mean literally the booger patrol

RA it was

MA Broke out paperwork looking everywhere and find them on the stairs

RA One time Helen’s dad was in town and suddenly you have the bug or a patrol what’s it like whenever the people scream at all and you’re bad or whatever so it’s like that and of course I just think even a got to wear even when I heard a loud noise her voice but I was afraid that’s what it was what it was or not so the thing is it was at the top of the stairs a wall up 

KA high

RA high

KA Where you couldn’t even reach

RA I could not reach and I remember Helen’s dad saying I’ll give you a nickel if you could reach it I’ll help you you know so I’m just like I don’t know what I thought I wasn’t that dumb but I it’s a nickel but anyway so with his help I was able to kind a get close enough to where OK he did do it so the obvious didn’t get book it was so clear anybody knew it

KA well it wasn’t about that

RA yet I still got punished all the same and pretty much the same way

KA So was your dad around

MA not then 

KA OK

RA Was he not

MA No he wasn’t there there was a whole crowd of her dad Helen’s dad all of her kids and this is what really hurts is because I can remember being at the top or if you’re walking upstairs I was to the left and you could come around from the big room and all this commotion has started I remember  starting it I found another one and I found another one and you obviously couldn’t get it and I thought well this is going to be even as a youngster this is going to be they are the time that were able to prove that none of this has been through you none of it and then he came up with this idea to give you a coin and actually put a knee up so that you could

And I was like Richard don’t do that and you know I learned what a coward really looks like because I was there all those times and just thought I guess one ass whippin is not as bad as two

RA Yeah well and there was nothing that we could do I mean why was I so compliant

MA But I remember just going to sleep going things are really getting bad Im the little guy compared to Richard and everybody else You know they would’ve put me up front  and there’s nothing I can do about it and I remember you come down the stairs Oh wait I remember waiting to hear you cry so I knew you were all right just kind of stuck to the side I didn’t join the witchhunt but I was in the brother you could ask yourself what would you do over when you were seven probably be to work out more when I was three did you get a steroids because I think I’m gonna need it that’s when things were really became horrific

METHODICAL

KELLY

As random and chaotic as it seemed, Helen’s punishment was actually . . . methodical. 

See, with each new chapter of torment, she would do two things: First, she would place the boys in an absurd and embarrassing situation. This would make them question their own rights and their sense of what was normal. Next, she would gradually introduce more outsiders into the situation, who would reinforce that it was “normal” and okay.

Unfortunately, since Richard was the youngest child, he was usually the scapegoat. At the age of seven, Helen threatened to diaper Richard in full view of all of his siblings and half-siblings. Now she was blaming him for hiding boogers in impossible places - and she included her extended family and their own father in this sick game. Richard simply couldn’t win.

EMOTIONAL TERRORISM

RA So there was just that constant sense I mean it was really both of us clearly right both suffering you knew it was gonna happen and you were just waiting for it

KA It was terrorism

RA absolutely yeah

KA Emotional terrorism

RA And then none of the other stuff stopped you know the other the working the chores the

MA But like you said earlier that was when we were outside it almost became a safe place to be

RA That’s right

MA As long as we could do what we needed to do and Helen not come out either not having anything and just grab and whatever she could fine or what that black belt she like the harbor behind her and just you know dangle it in front of you

SILVER LINING

KELLY

Home was no longer a safe place, not even outdoors. But thankfully, there was sometimes a silver lining at school.

MA I had Miss Edward’s third grade class I remember they had a writing contest whoever would write a story and we got to go up in and present it in front of everybody I don’t remember the content of my story but it won the prize

KA  oh yeah

MA And there was a young girl name Sally Rogers and I remember it seem like you know even as a youngster I was a chick magnet I mean there was no question about it and so I really read wasn’t but I had a crush on her and we were kind of we were we were friends but we are a boy and girl so we didn’t go over each others houses another I could have I wasn’t gonna get a free pass for a day but I remember always looking forward to going to school plus Miss Edwards was one of the greatest teachers I ever had other than Miss Shirley Shoquist Miss Edwards was fantastic I was real good but I love the writing even at that time and I remember taking a lunch and I Remember having our sack lunch mine was cheese and mayonnaise and I remember winning a free lunch that was my price and the price was given out before it was time for lunch and she said well I see you already brought your lunch for tomorrow you can not bring your lunch if you can we’re going to buy lunch and I can sit with her so that was really OK me and Angie are you peons over there what are you doing but I remember saying no no no I would rather just can I just eat it today and I just eat lunch today I don’t wanna have anything to do that sack lunch I was so tired and I know and I just felt it honestly if I told Helen that I would be something else that she would Pack me a lunch anyway tell me how to take it so at lunch was going to go to waste because I wasn’t gonna tell her the next day don’t worry about back at me and lunch enough that she did we pretty much did

KA So what about your school experience 

RA I didn’t have anybody it was it was that I was kind of a I think I have become scared by then like I had change from when I was littler I was very withdrawn I didn’t talk to people much and people I was I think I was looked at is kind of weird because I probably was and so I was do you know Helen just the way she dressed me and all that it just didn’t it was not a good place you know kids are mean

KELLY

It was at this time that a figure from the past re-entered the boys’ lives.

Mental health treatment started making some good changes in their mother’s life. Joy was released from the Terrell State Hospital and did everything she could to come see her boys.

MA There’s no doubt in my mind how much she loved us if she could take anything back about what they know about depression did today it might been a completely different story but she would come in to to and dad would take us either to uncle Calvin her brother who lived in Pleasant Grove

mom would say about whatever money she had that she went to live with her dad and Avery Texas and she had a falcon of4 falcon 1966 and she would save up enough money to come down

VISITS FROM MOM

KELLY

Joy would drive two and a half hours from Avery to that terrifying house on Margo Street in Mesquite, Texas. From there, she would rescue the boys and take them to her brother’s house in Pleasant Grove - what a perfect name for this refuge.

We would stay  the weekends there in that house to go see a movie and spend time but I started getting some time away then I don’t know what was going on with dad and the rest of the group

RA I think that was probably where I first started feeling a bond with my mom he scared of her before that but that I can remember right but yeah that was that was good and you know despite how scared I had been at her before it was still a very secure situation with her over there I felt great and we walk over to Gibson’s and we would always be able to get like a little parachute army man or something and then sometimes go to the movies right

MA Oh yeah 

RA Dairy Queen and then to the movies

MA 19 73,74 the Poseidon adventure was when mom said y’all didn’t ask for popcorn or anything and then my dad had the audacity as he was trying to take us out on a nice little date boys tried I don’t know if they’re separated at this time or not I remember him taking us to see the exorcist in 1974 and now once again I don’t know if the hi5 was invented but I’m like dad is this your idea of spiritual warfare and emotional

KA That’ll scar ya

RA scared me to the Savior

KELLY

After some time, Joy even became stable enough to take the boys back to Avery with her, where they all stayed at her father’s house.

MA we went to moms and do you remember Avery

RA Oh yeah I remember Avery Avery was great

FREEDOM

Life in Avery was as free as life in Mesquite was restricted. They were able to play, participate abut they were a little too busy for their grandfather to take. 

MA we went to mom and Ken was with us and we weren’t there maybe two months and of course we realize where my mother got her depression from my grandfather who was a great man but he was struggling at that time too he had his own dark in bedroom from which we were never to impede this area and that we had to keep it down Gramps as we called him would get upset with us and we are guests remember we were on the paved road with all the rocks and there was this old shack man we there was this old shack there and it still had some windows in it and we just started picking at rocks off this old dirt and we started slinging them and it was making racket and we could come in mom went to work in daycare that’s where she went to work at a little restaurant there she was a waitress and she would bring home these tacos we couldn’t wait for her to get home with the tacos but it would be late and we were still up

KA And your mom participated like she he went to some thing at a school function and she sent

KHA Yes she was

KA She sent a cake or something

MA and grandkids and some induced coma with his antidepressant so we’re just running around Reno playing with God knows what and we were allowed it came a point where grandad said these kids got to go 

KELLY

Got to go? Go where? Avery was the only safety these boys had seen in a long time. Needless to say, they did NOT want to leave.

And Ken, the oldest, wasn’t afraid to say so.

MA I remember you getting a permanent marker and I mean it was seriously this might’ve been preamble to the declaration of independence as much wording as you had on this now at the time but to me it took up the whole quarter of a wall and it just said thanks Gramps because if you were not gonna be able to stay with mommy anymore and Lala law and but I think the hardest part was knowing that we were just getting something started

KHA yeah 

MA And uh

KELLY

Back to Margo Street they went. And Helen was as unhappy as the Archibald boys were.

Still, the charade continued while their father was around.

DISCORD IN MARRIAGE

RA I’m trying to think of that but the the the discord between my dad and Helen began I don’t really know when that started but that started and that would get pretty

MA You know things heightened like when mom got home 

MA and so we ended up back at Helen’s you know I’m surprise dad didn’t say just in well then your problem now figure it out but we ended back at back at Helen’s late 73 just in time to enjoy a little Christmas 

I remember being back in the grasp but if you will of of the cause you know I think we were coming out of Avery and an attempt to stay with my granddad and my mom and we we love our mama you know she’s her mama she was I remember we were down there would play with that look thin and we do need little things and mom would bring us but we were leaving there and we were not coming back to 3005 Margo Street

we spent the Christmas holidays at Margot it was a white Christmas tree where we had sprayed that flock yeah we got some hair spray if locked it and I remember it just being flooded with presents I guess it would’ve been when you’ve got seven kids so

KA Yeah and you got a bike and and that was a sweet time-ish but you didn’t know what was going to happen next so you’re still under that like terrorism kind of mentality

RA That’s probably the grasp he was

MA Dad was there right and we knew as long as dad was there it was Jekyl and  Hyde with Helen and so dad was there he had a couple of days to begin we just felt OK let’s enjoy the moment while we can

KA What happen after Christmas do you remember

RA I don’t I kind of remember that Christmas because I remember the whole thing I got that I didn’t get to keep 

MA I mean somebody went out out that Christmas I mean with what you got I remember my bike it had a radio you mounted to the handlebars for the horn

RA. I remember that

MA I could listen to the radio we can push this little horn matter fact I’ll let you take it for a spin

RA. Oh I hit a car right 

MA you hit a car

RA. I did I remember

MA. It wasn’t just a car it was a parked truck

RA Right

MA. I mean it would’ve been one thing if the tailgate would’ve been down and you could have just slid right but no the tailgate was up it was Mr. Kirkland’s truck and you were so enamored going at hitting that horn  button that you ran 

And I remember you fell off and it was like you know you’re you’re boy section down there went up against the front and all I remember hearing was AAAGGH But I thought oh my when you fell over and you were like 0hohoh my jewels and you were saying I remember the handlebars were completely crooked and man this is what a terrible brother I know I’m just thinking man hope he didn’t break that radio

RA did it

MA No It didn’t break it

KA Mike with do you like to share about your tape recorder that you had gotten at Christmas I know that that was very special to you because you’ve mentioned it several times and you

recorded on it to y’all played a lot on it

MA That A great catch because we did and we before we went to Buckner we were getting that same closet Richard locked you into and you could sing I couldn’t but you would sing that She’s one hell of a woman by Big Mac Mack Davis

Whatever his name was you could sing that and we can play that back and but yeah so that was that great Christmas I was talking about I mean it was it wasn’t the greatest Christmas I ever had but considering the situation that we were in to be flooded with gifts at that time and everybody seem to be so joyful it was awesome

NEXT BIG EVENT

KA So what was the next big event

RA You know I I do not know and so if Mike has a

RA I remember getting some some going to a doctor and having certain kind of vaccines that I don’t remember any blood drawn but I remember we were getting shots and and I can’t tell you what the justification was the right dad or Helen had told us do you remember visiting Buckner

RA I think I do we were kind a go just to the that really pretty of course all the buildings were pretty in my mind the main the main building right with all the big steps going up look like like you’re pulling up some naval

MA yea yeah

RA I do remember remember that main road that was

MA It’s pretty and there’s trees on each side you’re just kind of cruising down like you’re going to Southfork but it was like you’re going down to a beautiful at all those buildings were red and they were brick very 

RA To this day I love that

MA University kind a look

RA I do remember that

KA He visited but came back to stay

RA And I don’t remember whether I had any idea what we were doing there I don’t have a connection there’s an obvious connection because it was Buckner and I know we went there but I don’t know at the time that I had that did you

KELLY

Vaccines and blood tests? After everything they’d been through, this wasn’t necessarily surprising to the boys. 

But what they didn’t realize was that they were about to move away from Margo.

PLACED IN AN ORPHANAGE

MA I agree no I don’t think I ever I know dad we went and saw the bowling alley one of the first things and ass are remember dad saying man when you just like to know that you’re right here with this all the time or something to that nature that you can have this kind of a fun place like this and I thought well we’re just gonna kinda I don’t know what’s going on but maybe were gonna go bowling today this is neat and it wasn’t far from big town maybe we just stop from there cause you could literally be at that big town cinema and go right across like Scyene or whatever that was and then you had the backside of Buckner we’re had all the soccer fields all the ball parks and then they had the the bowling and it was a recreation center to they had Foos ball all kind of stuff in there

But I didn’t I did not match that up to where we would dad was just asking us if we’d enjoy this because we were gonna come back in some shape or fashion 

KA So at what point did you know that you were going to be staying at Buckner

RA I do not remember I remember those visits I remember being in Buckner

KA  and that’s it

MA Do you remember packing anything

RA I don’t remember packing and things don’t remember the drop off that I know you remember I really don’t know what I was thinking or doing

MA Well I mean oh so you’re in second grade

RA yes

MA And I’m in fourth and Ken would’ve been in seventh well I just remember for people to a room when dad took us up there there was no Helen it was just him Helen was a part of the equation we put some things in the back of the truck at least what we had loaded and I don’t remember if it was a suitcase I believe it was it was full throttle suitcase you’re caring up there it wasn’t like we’re gonna have a couple of nights worth of stuff you’re going to get settled in and will bring some stuff up there because I had Christmas goodies and everything that had gotten other than the bike that was never loaded but I had my little tape recorder and some other little things that oh yeah I can remember unpacking I can literally remember dad helping us unpack there were two rooms on each side we share a big bathroom with the other room across the way so it will be eight boys sharing the bathroom in the little shower area that was there I remember Ken being probably the oldest person there

KHA I remember I mean it was a transaction you know I remember going to the office at Buckner the main building and and basically he paid for us to stay there and I mean I remember them talking about this and then signing some papers you know and um I remember the idea that this was not permanent that this was again this was ways to an end a means to an end and I don’t remember all the particulars but but I was old enough in it that point I’m 13 and you know and it was like Ken here’s what we’re doing and but I’m gonna come get y’all and uh you know at that point it was it was as if my thought process was well they told me I’m gonna leave Helen you know and this is what we got to do so I can get this accomplished 

hindsight was I was kind of rebellious and I was the oldest person upstairs and I got to stay upstairs even after I turn 13 because remember one we agreed the way the finances were set up we agreed or my dad said I’m gonna come get them before he turns 14 so it’s not like he’s going to and we just must be two to a room and we agreed to pay for a room and there were three of us were there 

KELLY

Listener, I’m sure you’re wondering just like the boys were: What on earth is Buckner?

And this is the part of the story that most resembles A Series of Unfortunate Events. You see, Buckner was an orphanage.

Even though the Archibald boys had parents, living with them was no longer an option. Their mother and grandfather didn’t have the mental stability to care for three little boys. And their father was also struggling to parent them for different reasons.

In any case, the boys spent this next chapter of their story as orphans. For Richard, this was actually a good thing. Buckner offered some breathing room away from Helen and her sons. 

But for Ken and Mike, who felt the responsibility of caring for Richard, this was terrifying.

KA So at what point did you know that your dad help you unpack and then did you realize that you were staying

MA Yeah I mean I was put in all this I don’t remember if I literally asked is this a weekend retreat or is this just some sort of a summer camp because school starting that by the way I mean this is and at some point it became a realization to me that that’s where we were going to be to me I can’t tell you I knew the duration of time but I knew it wasn’t just like it was a week in kind of a deal or this is going to be something fun this is going to be something just literally life-changing and as frightened as I’ve ever been in my life I meant even with Helen and some of the things we were going through it was we had certain control over it if you would just work harder you know we’re going to still be here dad‘s going to be in from his trucking trip it’s so we had some I know that like you said Rich what we’re doing is not right but we’re having to do there with Helen clip and all that’s not right we get a switch after us we weren’t careful but now that it was just we were going to be three of us with another guy who happened to be there by the way and he was on his bed and he was just like hey and I’m like oh my god this guy we’ve been to Terrell State Hospital and I was like when did this guy break out how did he get there

KA yeah

RA Well I remember having a sense of like it wasn’t a bad thing for me now granted I probably just got people they were just probably taking care of my stuff I don’t remember having to do anything but what I do remember is the feeling and it was a little different for me and Mike right I I had the booger stuff going on I had the physical physical issues with the brothers the stepbrothers and Helen so for me anything away from anything away from that was good and so so the one thing I was nervous about was getting separate getting separated I remember that and I remember there was some talk and they let Ken stay and I guess that’s what I was stressed about but then that worked out and then it was it was almost fun

MA I remember we had these little side tables and remember taking my black tape recorder out and these things were big and I put it on the desk on this little side bedstand And it was a lady it was a lady that said oh she looked at that and she said son you can’t you can’t have that and I’m like yeah it was my Christmas present you know I look at my dad I mean like that’s my Christmas present and she said son that that won’t last till tomorrow and that’ll get stolen And I remember looking at my dad at that time I don’t think he really flinched I just said I remember looking saying see dad see even she says it that this is not a place for us that this ain’t the kinda I mean  see dad this is the kind of thing that we’re going to be at now and You know that final plea to bring some because I knew we were saying it wasn’t like we’re just doing this because we’re all going to sleep here overnight I didn’t  know how long I just thought this is a bad place you know there’s all kind of stuff going on here and proceeded to say well I’m sorry son but I’ll keep it for you you know he packed it back in and he left 

KA. Do you remember saying goodbye to your dad

MA. No I just remember you know what I don’t even think I was downstairs like I have this vision you remember we were in that front area where that little street was that in the front yard area next to what was our dormitory name

RA Cullum 

MA Cullum There’s a lot of those horse apples and weed play soccer with those sometimes kicking around cause they’d always crack open the dorm mom in the dorm dad would always kind of be watching us and I had this vision until you brought this up was dad driving off but I think that because were that window was upstairs and you could almost see that big town and Kmart over there that dad was driving down that street and he was making that turn to head back to the straightaway to get out and I saw him hit his brake lights and I thought you know maybe he’s gonna change his mind or I don’t know

KA. You were hoping that

MA I guess I will say this there’s a moment will get to you later on down the line and I had to had that same feeling that you just described that at least we’re not with Helen anymore and I had just taken such a toll on you I guess you’re like hey I’m not with HELEN anymore

RA That was really all for so many years of my life that was all that mattered to me and I said this and stuff before the simplicity of that was do you know that’s really all that mattered to me

 THE CHALLENGE OF SCHOOL

KELLY

With all this moving around, from Margo to Avery to Buckner, keeping up in school became a huge challenge.

KA. So did you go to school there

RA At Edna Rowe Elementary

KA. OK so you went to a different school

RA. I remember the room the house father bus boys bus

MA I do remember that RA he’d scream so loud

Time to get down there and get on the bus

MA. And it was a big school bus wasn’t like a little bus it was a big school bus we had a lot of kids on that bus with us all going to Edna Rowe

KA. OK and how was that

RA How was it for you

MA I was lost because I didn’t because I didn’t know what they were doing on the board I had nine I mean either hadn’t gotten to it yet or since we already been bounced around within like a one semester two or three times from one school to the next guy he was doing fractions so fast he had this way about him he would he would text me that chalkboard I mean he had 10 things of chalk just lined up on the board they are so he’s just hammering away doing what he’s doing with his scratching this out caring this over doing his he would hit that thing so hard never just crack and grab another one he just go out it

KA Will you lose six weeks every time you move

MA Well I think I lost a couple years

KA. That’s like y’all lost a lot of of education there

MA I don’t remember anyone ever tutoring or saying they knew I was lost somehow I got through it and I don’t remember having any friends outside of Buckner that I met in classes 

RA Yeah we were at least in second grade it was and I would think that it would’ve been worse in fourth grade we were the Buckner kids and so there was a label and there was a

KA Was there a shame to that 

RA. Well that was the intent I think for the other kids to make fun of you and all that but there was this one girl I think her name was Jenny in my class and she was probably well off and she seem like it she was always so nice to me and our teacher had to be you could be like a something bee happy just to be something bee a busy bee a super bee and she was always a super bee and I would always get the busy bee but I couldn’t get over to the super B and so she would always I don’t know I just remember her trying to help me and she was real nice I will never forget her  so that was school and I remember the bus the biggest thing I remember about the bus and I guess it was was it just like the whole Buckner community that got on the bus and took us

MA Oh yeah there were we didn’t make it a normal stops for other kids on the bus on the route matter fact the bus it’s so said Buckner children so it was like Dallas ISD 

RA so I mean you can guess that it was there were some rough kids in Buckner and I remember one day the fight that broke out on the bus I don’t know if you were on it or not but it was I had never I don’t know if we had been in mom‘s wreck yet when her face was all red but I had never seen that much blood on someone’s face and we’re talking maybe fifth graders fourth graders or something but anyway I remember that and then I remember walking home did you ever walk home

MA From Edna Rowe

RA From Edna Rowe

MA No I don’t I don’t I don’t

KA Walking home to Buckner

RA  yes

MA  to me

RA. And I was not supposed to do that by the way I got in a whole heap of trouble but

MA You just walked home

RA I just walked home I just said I’m not getting on that bus

MA Oh after that after the beating?

RA  I don’t know if it was after the beating but it may well have been that would make sense but the end of the day I don’t know how I swung it but I just walked down and I just remember the freedom I felt it was like but I got in trouble

MA But you knew your way

RA  yeah I know the way

MA But to me and a row when I remember getting on that bus that we had to make other stops although leaving we were the last ones I got picked up but coming back we had to go to all these other dorms and let people out and then when we get to ours the bus barn wasn’t far from ours I can remember hearing them crank up and start coming out but in a row seem like it was a long way off man Richard was always a little brave dude

TAKEN TO CHURCH

KHA I do remember at my age anyway is that the the people at Buckner whether they were giving you licks or or getting onto you because you did something wrong they were Christian people and we went to church whether we like it or not we went to church on Sunday mornings at first Baptist and listen to W.A. Criswell and then on Sunday nights we had our own church we had her on Pastor I was friends with the pastor’s son and he had his own little house you know.

KELLY

Church was a source of light in this lonely time. It was like stepping into another world.

RA We went to first Baptist Dallas that was our church

MA Once again on the bus  off we went

RA And I do remember them taking us I I don’t I don’t think dad was there but it might’ve been when they cause we had a pursuit and they had like a closet it was a closet it was like a warehouse all most to me it was a warehouse small where you would go and pick out what fit you to wear to church and I remember we had a little time Jacket and we go to church

MA A little clip on

RA Yeah clip on tie and I remember first Baptist seems so big

MA Yeah it did didn’t it 

RA And cause would we sit up and about

MA oh yeah we were sitting up at the top of the rafters buddy

RA To me it could’ve been reunion arena you know it was it wasn’t of course but to me it was and I guess it was brother Criswell

MA WA

RA Yeah and I guess we probably went to Sunday school too

MA Yeah we did we crossed over so you had the sanctuary been they had these office buildings they look like office buildings to me I remember seeing the church I know what a church is when you do across the street I remember we went up to like the children’s area and once again I remember Nguyen when you cross over Jackson Street or whatever it was I can’t remember anymore how cold it was when we cross over but man once we got over and we got it like on the third or fourth floor there would be a donut

And we would have certain things or now it was Bible stuff I mean you know there’s pictures and other things that they’re going over but I remember open the Bible can’t say it was Noah’s Ark or whatever it was but we were we were studying

RA Yeah so that was good

KELLY

And even though they had to spend six days of the week back at Buckner, they eventually made a friend who looked out for them.

KHA And miss Hunt would let me she’d give me money and she let me was just a chain-link fence we didn’t have barbed wire we were in prison and I climb the fence and go to Kmart now in her defense we were the dorm right on that edge and I would walk to Kmart and buy the cookies and stuff number one the cookie that she stashed but then cookies that she gave to us and I by all and bring it back now there had to be some laws violated there to let a 13-year-old kid leave the premises and go to Kmart and just be with all these people and and I just bought her cookies and I just came back and everything in so I did have some privilege there because I was cut I kind of ran things and so

NUTTER BUTTERS

RA I remember one time I don’t know how many times you did it I remember one time you came back and you had your own little stash

KHA Oh absolutely

RA under a tree and you came and got me and said come on I got something for you and so I went down there and I think they were Nutter butters

KHA You know it was always Nutter butter peanut butter

RA OK they were ants on it but we didn’t care we were just blowing them off and eating them I remember that so vividly

KHA I just remember that uh I remember that I did all the chores because there wasn’t that much to do but y’alls bus left before mine and I’d always we always had a dust mop and mop our our room every morning and all of y’all we had our closets I remember it like it was yesterday and I’d help y’all get dressed and y’all get off down yeah the hall and go and I get everything tidied up um and uh I just remember that I just knew it was gonna be OK 

KA And what about what was your day like did you have to get up and go like to the cafeteria to eat breakfast

MA yeah 

RA I guess we did eat breakfast every morning

MA We did it would be very

RA Manna Hall

MA. It would be very early to manna Hall and very cold and dark still

RA That’s what I remember yeah cause I was as soon as I got up I would take my sheets to the washer place and we had then we have the big keys that you put in the net

MA Through the loop

RA The Key

MA So you’d have your number know who’s it was

RA And then I grab it after school after school put on the bed but yeah I remember I have fond memories of manna hall 

KELLY

Manna Hall was named after a Biblical story in which God provides food for his people, the Israelites, when they are in a desert. When there wasn’t a single plant to be seen for miles, bread came from heaven, and God called it “manna.”

And for the boys, this cafeteria food might as well have been bread from heaven!

MA It was not it was good yeah I mean considering you’re eating beans and sauerkraut we were ecstatic to have scrambled eggs and those little slices of bacon and pancakes we go through like a line with your tray they serve yet and it was it was just like I don’t know if we had to sit with and it doesn’t matter if we had to sit with our group or not was like to me it was just one big old big open seating and I had this little chick magnet even at a Young age I had Tracey Kast that would sit with me

RA I remember that name

MA But we all felt good I mean once we got into a rhythm right

RA Oh yeah and was it the mashed potatoes that people would put their cup in and people could lift their tray up

KA  oh my goodness

RA Put your cup and the potatoes in the whole tray would

come up 

KA Like glue

MA So that was how you knew the potatoes were really going to be good that night it would hold up the tray

RA. And then on Sunday nights we had sandwiches at the room the dorm and Ken or Mike probably can but would always try to wipe because these mayonnaise is like bologna and mayonnaise can we try to wipe the mayonnaise off for me and he did and it was good 

RA I have fond memories and then there was a wreck time where I would spend it alone too I remember because you remember I guess it was just past the rec center was where the U and up the hill to the stadium for the soccer and that hill the sun would be yeah I guess to the west and I just read I have such good memories of sitting there laying on that hill with the sign and what it reminds me of her now and when it reminded me of then was being I was being out in the sun in the yard on Marsha waiting for Mike to come home and it was the same peace there as it was then

KELLY

But we know where the story must go from here. Somehow, an orphanage had become one of the best homes these boys had ever had. But just as soon as they had settled in, they were snatched right back out.

KA So one day they came to get you

MA They came and got it but dad had his boat on the back with the kids all the children up front so all three of us jumped into the back dad went out to Lake Ray Hubbard we had like it was old times 

MA he mustered it up to say maybe we can make another family run out and y’all want to come on home 

MA it’s almost like the opposite of officer and a gentleman because I had Tracey Cass probably eaten some of these eggs go in this place is great I’ve got I’m just having a good time we’re talking and I remember me and you could just instead of me coming in to get the girl and carry her in it it was like my dad came here and carried me out and I’m going AHHH Love lift us up but you ain’t come in with me you know I remember her she just turned to me dad just walked in leisure suit Larry at all and he just walked on in he had the people with them whoever they were

RA In the cafeteria right

MA In the cafeteria man

RA manna Hall yeah

I have a remember that now that you mention it

KA And he just came and picked y’all up

MA Yeah he just came and got us

KA And you went back to Helen’s

MA Stuff is already packed he just came and got our physical bodies and we left

KELLY

I just can’t even imagine what was going through their minds as Ken, Mike, and Richard sat in the back of that car, driving back to Margo Street and more torture.

And I wonder what little Tracey Cast thought when Mike and his brothers simply disappeared from Buckner that day. Where were they going? Would they be okay? Would she ever see Mike again?

We’ll find out on the next episode of Qavah.