From Survivor to Witness (Part 2): Heidi Thomas on Anxiety, Grooming, and Finding Her Voice
From Survivor to Witness
Heidi Thomas Part 2
Seeking Treatment for Anxiety
My moral of that story is I don't want to be toxic positivity, right? But I do want people to know that even these really awful dark times. If you can, hang on and trust yourself to get through them. It can lead to some amazing opportunities who knew?
Heidi Thomas's journey took unexpected turns as she navigated through life's challenges. As a young mother seeking treatment for her anxiety, she had no idea that the source of her worries would soon gain widespread attention. Welcome back to Qavah.
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Host (Voiceover): Welcome to Qavah the Podcast where hope becomes the lifeline in the face of adversity. I'm your host, Kelly Archibald, and in each episode, we delve into the remarkable journeys of individuals who have navigated through the darkest of times, relying on the power of hope and perseverance.
The accounts shared on this Podcast, including this Episode, reflect the guests’ thoughtful recollections and opinions of experiences perceived and occurring over many years, including childhood memories, which may be fallible and limited by perspective and trauma. Persons may have different memories regarding certain events.
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An opportunity to Launch Her Career
I had been in the theater world here, music theater world in Denver. I had an agent. She called me and said that there was an icon in the industry that wanted to look at promising young talent and see if he could help and I thought first of all, wow, my agent thinks I'm promising young talent. And she wanted to know if, you know, I was willing to get some one on one acting coaching. And like I said, we'll work stuff. And then my next question was, what was it going to cost me and she said, Well, we're going to pay for everything. You're going to be flown for one on one, coaching. And then she finally told me that the person was Bill Cosby. And we were only to refer to him as Mr. C. So if, in fact, any of our discussions were overheard by another talent in the agency, there wasn't going to be any accusation of favoritism or you know, teacher's pet or anything. Mr. C, was given my home number I was living with my parents. So he called he talked to my parents. And we now know this is part of his MO This is his for make process. He gets to know the person the family, Mr. Charm, Mr. Jello Pudding, all of those things that that we knew at the time.
We trusted him
This was 84. And so by the time I actually met him, my agent flew me to Reno where he was doing a show. My agent paid for a hotel room. And I flew there I was picked up at the airport by you know, a driver and I'm so excited. I've never been out of Colorado, other than on Camp trips. So I picked up a postcard at the airport so I could find my hotel. And it's in a postcard. I was going to be gone for four days. And I couldn't you know circle where what my room was maybe later. And we're driving and I realized that we know this. Now the hood so I asked the rider where we were going and he said, Oh, there's been a change of plans on taking you right to where Mr. C's staying. Are you staying at a friend's ranch house? That way I mean, your work is going to be with him where paparazzi isn't going to be around and he stays out here. You know, he's a former track star and everything and he does runs that's how he keeps himself together. So this made perfect sense. Of course, you're not going to have Bill Cosby walk into a hotel, and then come to hate this kid's gonna be swamped. So this makes perfect sense. And I just assume that my coaching and then they'll take me back to the hotel and I don't know what's gonna happen the next three days. We'll pull up. I remember going up and it's this big, sprawling ranch house. And I remember pushing the doorbell and feeling like the doorbell was gonna, you know, shake because I was shaking so hard. And he opens the door. Oh, wow. And he's in his sweats and his couch, you know, and he's cool and he's everything we all do. To be relaxed, easy to be around. Charming, comfortable. You just immediately felt comfortable. There was no other than the obvious. This guy is a giant. I can't believe I'm here like feeling right everything else. Alright, then the driver brings my dad said and Mr. C's said you can take those unit wherever it is. And I thought my room and then again I'm justifying it I thought oh well of course and he followed right up with don't get into something comfortable because I show up. Anybody who's heard the story of the cause we live in and they say well look how they were dressed or they accuse the victims of you know, dressing provocatively something like this dressed for a business meeting. I was in a black wolf suit. The Start went down. It was mid level pencil, right? It has layers, turtlenecks and brown, whatever. He said don't get comfortable. Bring out your makeup, your monologue at Barlaam and hair stuff and we're going to start working. Again, this is all exactly what you expect. Right? Right. I go back into the room. Literally. That's why they brought my bags in so that I can change clothes, get my makeup, met everything that come out to the kitchen table. This is so relaxed and so informal. I sit down he said Okay, so tell me about your mole. I give him my monologue. He's not that impressed. I'm not surprised. Just this little quote up Colorado. And then he said, I want to do a clone the read and for those who don't know what that is, it's when you're handed a script. And basically you've got a couple of minutes to look it over. Nobody expects you to memorize it. You're just supposed to bring whatever you can to that character with no notice. Never seen this thing before. This character was intoxicated. Okay, it takes place in the bar. So I did my best and I finished and again, he didn't look that impressive. He said have you ever been drunk? And I said you know what, I don't drink. And so when he was here at parties, I know what intoxicated people look like and like so I'm kind of drawing on that and he said, like, if you were to drink, what would you order? And even though I said a glass of white wine, I don't like white wine by the way. But I write in less than a minute, a glass of white wine is sitting in front of me. And it's okay, just use this as a prop and just sit on it and and see if just having a prop will help you maybe get into the spirit of it. You're probably still a little uptight and nervous and let's just relax a little bit.
So I took this and and I've maintained all these years because of course now I'm one of the Cosby women and I've done a lot with this. It was one set A and don't like white wine. So I knew I wasn't going to finish this and be stunned at how fast and how potent that was. I remember hearing him say I remember his voice say are beginning to feel the part better now. I don't know what I responded. I don't remember the rest of the read. And I don't remember most of four days. So I know I must have been any never occurred to me that I had been drugged. Will never occurred to me until because the women started speaking out. Three decades later, right. And my husband said because I didn't tell anybody for a long time that they were jumping around in this story I realized but I didn't tell anybody by have little like snapshots in my head of memories. A couple of them we'll just leave it at are incredibly rapid. And I know I was sexually assaulted. I was raped.
I know that and therefore as time went on, and I knew I wasn't going to tell anybody. If you listen to any of the other class people and they will tell you, you'll get fire. If you accuse somebody that big of doing something like that the agency's not going to tolerate that kind of thing. So you just keep your mouth shut and it happens to this day. It's that word working with other survivors to see if we can change that societal dynamic. But the bottom line was I sent nothing until my husband eventually. And as each of my three daughters came of age, we had a little more better talk. So that they knew that I told them the reason I was telling them this was that I wanted them to know they could come to me with anything in their lives, no matter what happened. Right that I hoped I didn't live my life as a victim. But they needed to know that if awful things happen, mom's been through it, and mom won't collapse or whatever, right. So my family knew. And when that all started becoming public, I mentioned them and decided with everybody's permission that I was going to go public. I felt you know, whatever the term you want to say speak your truth, mostly to support these other women because they were being so lambasted for the best. And I wanted them to just know that one more voice out there. Right I know you're telling the truth. There's no it's not a question of believing, you know, you're telling the truth. And and that kind of led itself into a whole new journey. Once again. That's not the path I was thinking he was gonna hate
Bill Cosby’s Legal Troubles
In 2018, Bill Cosby was convicted of aggravated indecent assault in the case involving Andrea Constand. He was imprisoned until the conviction was overturned in June 2021 by the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, citing violations of Cosby's 5th Amendment and 14th Amendment due process rights. Despite his release from prison, Cosby's legal troubles persist.
Recently, Heidi has joined with nine women filing a lawsuit against Bill Cosby in Nevada after the state eliminated the statute of limitations for civil cases. The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court for Nevada, alleges that Cosby used his "enormous power, fame, and prestige" to isolate and sexually assault each of the nine women involved. The women named in the lawsuit are Janice Dickinson, Lise-Lotte Lublin, Janice Baker Kinney, Lili Bernard, Heidi Thomas, Linda Kirkpatrick, Rebecca Cooper, Pam Joy Abeyta, and Angela Leslie.
Healing Through Music
Rather than making her bitter, Heidi has used this experience to help create health through music.
it has led to a whole new career, if you will, a post K through 12 music teacher that never would have guessed and that's extremely fulfilling. So, again, as a as a kind of a wrap up to that. My moral of that story is I don't want to be toxic positivity, right? But I do want people to know that even these really awful dark times. If you can, hang on and trust yourself to get through them. It can lead to some amazing opportunities who knew? Right that that horrible experience was going to lead to what I do now. We just teach people to use music right as a health tool.
Wow, that's how it all started was this horrific
thing. Wow. So something that was evil has turned into something good.
I think so. Yeah. Apparently several other people that work with me think so. so
and so. So tell me about how music was a part of your healing process.
So many people have asked this because I do speak on this. Obviously, how did it help you? And there's the one bugaboo I don't know that I can truthfully answer because music was always part of my life. Okay, therefore, I don't know. I don't know how else it would have been right yet. Imagine that. I do. Talk to people who didn't have music in their lives growing up, you know, who were maybe all about sports or maybe all about visual arts. Okay, what are some? And how does this differ? Because obviously, you can, if you're trying to get over any kind of trauma, any kind of term, throwing yourself into something positive, I think is a really good thing to do. You know, I'm sure I'm not an expert a lot of there's my way. But I do think you you focus your self on other things for a while. And until your body and soul is has enough time. That's really what it is time to heal. The music for me was such a constant. I think all I did was I took out I mean, obviously this experience turned me off the entertainment industry. Everything to do with this right. And for a while I even shut off the music, which is again, a whole different chapter if you want to talk about it actually became an office Tim that I kind of talked to you know, what am I going to do to just have some stability? I realize now that's what I was looking for. I was knocked off kilter. Right? I wanted the stability of an office job. I don't want to be looking for music gigs. I don't want to be wondering where my next paycheck is coming from. Right. Just what? Stability right? That's what I got for a while. And then I recognized. I mean, I did meet my beloved husband. We've been together now. I mean, we've got 35 years of marriage. So yeah, but I think along that line, I told him, I'm now dying inside just sitting in a desk and office work. I'm very good at it. Right? That's not very helpful to say I am good at it. But as a musician Orford, I'm going to say this, if you have a passion, if you have a skill, and you're very good at it. That's what you need to do to make yourself whole and maybe it's you know, you're a soccer player. At heart and your passion is playing soccer. Can you be a professional? Maybe not. Maybe you can coach Yeah, maybe you can still play in you know, amateur me, but you really do need to to acknowledge that passion, right? For me that passion happened to be music and I recognized I needed more of it back in my life, because I shut it aside. Right. So how did it help me? I think for a while I set it aside. I think I connected it too much with what had gone wrong. And then I recognized I was missing it. And then bringing it back into like life probably was more of the catalyst of oh yeah, this is what joy feels like. Oh, oh, yeah, I remember feeling like I want to dance to the music. Oh yeah. This is very familiar and good. Right and not shut down. So I think it was more of how it came back in after I showed you the side.
That's awesome. So how do you help other people who are dealing with the same sort of issues and as far as music goes, so what what kind of suggestions do you have for them?
I wish we had been able to be here for days. Because music is the universal language leads in infinitely right and I have worked with one of the things I do just go through the gamut. I do corporate workshops, and we talk about caring for your staff and of course, during the pandemic. Diva Yes, people are learning out and they're especially medical medical staffs and my oldest daughter is a nurse so she gets this completely. I talk about caring for your staff, your employees. Consider taking a music break either alongside or instead of a coffee break. Take Take five
minutes and listen to some music. Close your eyes read doesn't have to be calling. Or maybe that's what you need them. Maybe you're trying to cut back on your Cathy maybe you need something energized and that would be helpful to you and that that's great your heart rate, your respiratory rate, and even your brains to dances will automatically it's part of the miracle of music. They will try to sync with music if you aren't trying to multitask. So one of my first things I tell people is if you are in fact looking to use music as a tool, you wouldn't try to use a hammer and a chainsaw at the same time. Just focus on the music. Don't multitask. Okay, if you want to close your eyes and block out visual distractions, that's usually the thing, right? And then just see what that piece is doing to you. It'll take covered along the pieces, three minutes, five minutes and oftentimes you go back to whatever your job was a little bit refreshed. Yes. But stepping outside, right. You've got you've had a break. The difference with music is your brain has actually stopped focusing on your job. For a moment. And that has given it the brake and possibly your respiration your heart rate may have gone along with itself. That's one of the tools is if you've done a job or you take a break in the middle of your job. Time to go to a concert in the middle of the day. You're just gonna take a little music break. And I am by the way, shameless plug. If you have any desire, there's a website, no health through music, okay. And you can sign up for wellness Wednesdays and every Wednesday I just send out a piece of music and you can just click on the link and you know, use that whenever you need to midnight if you needed to o'clock in the morning, you're driving, whatever. So there's my shameless plug for wellness Wednesdays and let's see I've worked with people coming out of the penal system, people who are looking to restart their lives in society. And, you know, they're many of them are homeless, jobless, hopeless, right. We have a couple of amazing programs here in Denver. To help these people get reinstatements. So there's then go back into prison. The recidivism rate for a couple of these programs is is 10 times less, but it's amazing. And part of what I have done is just go in and before they have a gathering or a meeting of their group, I just played it. At some times, depending on what's happening that day, we'll have a music break in the middle of their meeting. And I can't tell you the number of people who come up to me and say music is what got me through my prison term. Wow. I think I would have done that if I hadn't been able to submit it for people who have said I came in here with a library. But I knew I had to come because frankly, this is what's going to save me or I'm an adult back in prison but I came with my library and it's gone and I can tell you when it left in left when you were playing the male name the piece. That's That's remarkable. I do play in hospitals and hospices and in retirement centers. Just the music and you've seen the stories. There are people who you think are no longer right, and save respond in multiple ways. Yeah. And then at the far end of the extreme, I do what I call palliative music. And this is where if someone is actively dying, and the family would like it, I bring my keyboard and I come in and I play beside them. And there's a training program. You can be certified as a music practitioner, not a therapist, but therapists works in tandem with the patient. When you back and forth, but practitioner, I believe in where people are in CONUS or totally unconscious. We are trained to look at the monitors that the oxygen level and the respiration rates, the blood pressure, the heart rates, and you tailor what you're playing to what it is that the medicals are trying to do. Are they trying to revive this person? Or are we trying to allow this person to transition into whatever comes after this life? Wow, there are different ways you play and use it. So it kind of runs the gamut from you know, wow, parents, how to use music for their babies, all the way to the end of life and everything in between. Well, again, this all spray from this horrible trauma. Wow, I guess that's what Yes, yes. That is
brilliant. That is absolutely brilliant. I love what you do so much and what a gift you are to people like you give them joy and love.
Oh yeah. We hope it's much like you know, you teach a person you can go give a man a fishing rod for a day teach the rest of the fish for life. So I don't I never want people to feel like I can't get through unless I hear something he's playing. Which is why I stress if if you're open to the idea that I do these seminars and I teach people right here are some ideas you might want to hear and they're still amusing, it's brilliant. It makes me feel stupid simply. And that's why I want to get the message out is after a couple of aha moments. But this really isn't rocket science. Right? It's that people haven't stopped long enough to realize why do I feel so great after a Pulitzer? Why do I ever want to go to a concert Frank and it doesn't matter what style of concert you go to. I don't care if it's the symphony or some acid. Why do you want to go something? And the aha moments are what brought me to this work. It's not it's not complicated. It's just think it out and and help you realize how you can help yourself in between concerts.
Yes, yes. So is that what you want people to take away from your story? Or what do you want people to take away from your story?
Light at the end of the tunnel
I think the bottom line obviously is that you want anybody who's been through any kind of horrific experience or trauma to remember that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It may look like a pinprick. It may be invisible to you. Right, right, right. It may be just hold on, right talk to friends. Yes, doctor, those hotlines for whatever you're dealing with. If you're really desperate, don't be alone. Just get somebody with you. And hold on. It will get better. That's part one part two. Talk to a professional if you don't know but what maybe. And by the way, I happen to believe highly in functional integrative alternative whatever adds rank, what is medicine? I believe highly and I also believe that this tiny little thing like take every morning it's this big, was a life changer for me in my 30s and I have been able to move forward because the anxiety was lessened and therefore I was able to think clearly right when you are in the midst of trauma you're not thinking clearly in your need help. Yeah, so those two things. And then obviously the piece that I hope to add is if you are open to the idea that you can help your professionals help Yes, then listen to some music. And allow it without other distractions to speak to you. Sometimes people another hint I have is go write down something people talk about journaling, it's fine. Talk into your phone just record your thoughts in your phone. Hearing yourself say what you're thinking is incredibly healing. It's just like talking to a therapist. Right? That there's a lot so their hands all over the place. And my bottom line is if if you think yes, it's hopeless, it's not it just isn't Hold on. Get someone beside and get professional and then listen to some music that let it touch you for a little bit and it'll give you maybe just that much energy to get on to tomorrow.
Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so remind us where we can find you. What is your website
www health through music, ag health eta l th through is spelled out. Okay. Thr ough. Okay. musc.com Okay.
Today, Heidi has found a career path she never could have imagined a music teacher dedicated to using music as a health tool. Her passion and dedication have led her to create a platform where she empowers others to harness the therapeutic power of music in their lives. If you want to learn more about Heidi Thomas's work and the incredible impact of music on health and well-being, be sure to visit her website at https://healththroughmusic.com/. There, you'll find valuable resources and insights into how music can transform lives and bring healing to those who need it most.
And,
and then we can sign up for wellness Wednesdays on
Wednesdays you can see the parts of my work that I do. And I also have a part of my work that does talk about sexual assault, specifically drug facilitated sexual assault. I do progress on that by myself in conjunction with a man who's doing a documentary on it here in Denver. And we've we're working with police departments. Again, all about helping get you through that really dark moment. Yeah, we'll move on to the next day. Man, I've gone to the next day. So there are two parts of my website if you decide you want to go you look at it. Okay, thank you for letting me plug that.
Yes, we want people to to utilize all the information that you have. It's incredible
tool, and it's there's so many out there. And sometimes it's overwhelming. It's over choice. So I get that. You look at your computer and says, you know, here's your browser, and you're like alright.
I get that. Well, thank you so much. Do you have anything else any? Do you have any thoughts on like as far as the judicial judicial system and what how that played out?
That whole thing because, yes. Don't we all have thoughts on that? Yes, we do. Obviously, I was honored. I was the first victim. I call it survivor right to justify this second trial, the one that actually found him guilty. And I was honored. I felt a huge sense of responsibility because I got to be the voice for over 60 other women. That's another little thing I would say, by the way, for anybody who's undergone any kind of sexual assault, but no, it's terrific. But reported, reported. You don't know but what 30 years later Yes, you might be gone on to put this. Wow. So did you report it so
when did you report the assault?
Chosen to testify
And actually, that's a hypocrite. I did not report it. Okay. And they found me only because I spoke out 30 years later. And I said, Absolutely. I am capable. I think, you know, detectives them and the DA and I got interviewed by people in Pennsylvania. All of us didn't. By the way. All of us did. The judge was you can't allow 30 people to testify sorry, picked a few and I was one of those honored to be chosen. It's pretty amazing for me facing a lot of sanland in the Hartness. Now people will say oh, that was terrific, but no, I don't think so. When I was the one in control. Yeah. I was the one with the power. Look at him and say You're nothing. Wow. Nothing. I'm the one up in this seat right now. I'm the one there was 22. Wow. And if you know I mean, you never took the stand and there's a reason for that. So I moments of my entire life was in that courtroom to be able to do that. By lucked out though. Mine was only because he was a celebrity. Right and they were actively looking for people to testify. That's not the case for most of us. Right. So if you report if you get those facts down, the chances of getting that moron off the streets are so much better. Right? And again, on my website, I do have a place for people to contact me if you've got questions. Absolutely reach out. Let me talk you through it. Let me know. I don't know what it's like in your state. Right. So let me at least empower you to do what you need to do now, to get this idiot so consequences. Yeah, because if we don't speak up, yes, there are no consequences and it will continue. Yes. Well,
thank you. Thank you for the questions and it was kind of going down memory lane back to my childhood. Oh, no, I just don't live there. Can I can I plug you back and the work you do to give people something to listen to whenever they need a voice vote to give you know for us to tune in in the middle of the night. As a Mustang right with us this in those spaces where you feel alone knowing that they can you know go to their computer and forget Kelly girl where she I need to listen to somebody who's got a smile heart. You know twinkling eyes that's that's a little rays of hope that our world needs. And you're doing it. grateful.
Thank you. Thank you. You're so sweet. Well, I so appreciate your sharing with us. Your story. It really is very empowering and encouraging to me I'm like, Whoa, there's in there's so much darkness. And there are so many people who have experienced what you've experienced and to see you happy, healthy whole and giving back to the world is so much hope for those going through that so thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Honored thanks
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